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The Anonymous Truth by chouzan-photography The Anonymous Truth by chouzan-photography
Taken in Austin, Texas...

Now that I live in the city, it's exciting to be there in the midst of human action. To many, such a protest as this seems childish. Also, it's unfortunate that many of the participants are also not the brightest of people... however, the majority wanted to follow the rules, and were very irritated at those who didn't because they only hinder their purpose.

I always thought of Scientology as kind of a Tom Cruise joke, but after doing my own research, I've developed a strong opinion against it.

This was a protest run by an internet-run group called "Anonymous", who claim they are a legion of revolutionary force. For once, they are doing something outside of the protective borders of the internet. Conservative news sources are still calling them nothing more than "teen hackers", even after the protest.

Here are some lines straight from the official Scientology website's FAQ... if you go to their site yourself, you'll see it's a bit freaky that the entirety of the content is about the horror of/fight against psychiatry and drugs, or defending their own religion.
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(Scientology is all the education you need, apparently)
Does it cost a lot to be a member of the Church and take services?

"No.... The training delivered by Churches of Scientology could be compared to taking a course in a school or similar facility. Four years at a typical university would cost between $30,000 and $40,000; four years at a top university would run between $80,000 and $90,000 or even more. And those figures do not include additional costs such as books and supplies."

(Well, they encourage religious freedom.. but Scientology is the only TRUE way to help society...)
Why do some people oppose Scientology?

"There are certain characteristics and mental attitudes that cause a percentage of the population to oppose violently any betterment activity or group. This small percentage of the society (roughly 2 percent) cannot tolerate that Scientology is successful at improving conditions around the world. This same 2 percent is opposed to any effective self-betterment activity. The reason they so rabidly oppose Scientology is because it is doing more to help society than any other group. Those who are upset by seeing man get better are small in number compared to the millions who have embraced Scientology and its efforts to create a sane civilization and more freedom for the individual."

(These last two were RIGHT next to eachother in the questions)
Did he make a lot of money out of Scientology?

"No. Mr. Hubbard was one of the most successful writers of modern times and even after his death his books continue to sell as many copies or more than those of top best-selling authors in the world today. More than 110 million copies of Mr. Hubbard’s books have been sold in 32 languages and distributed in 98 countries."

Wasn’t L. Ron Hubbard mostly a science fiction writer?

"No..."
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Hearing Tom Cruise talk about it is scary enough, and their website just enhances my skepticism of everything they are about.
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MANY HAVE DIED DUE TO ASSOCIATION WITH THE CHURCH.
VISIT [link]
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The information from this site and others, which I verified with official news sources, completely changed my ideas of Scientology.

Or google "Scientology IRS" and you'll get plenty of stories.
THEY ARE OBSESSED WITH MONEY AND CONTROL THEIR MEMBERS FINANCIALLY, MENTALLY, AND SOMETIMES PHYSICALLY.

I'm not necessarily for Anonymous and their actions... I think some of the people that want to be involved with them are just creepy 4chan.com weirdos. But, I don't like Scientology. Sorry, John Travolta. Religion, salvation, and true advice for betterment should not cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars, prevent you from receiving appropriate medical attention, or forbid your freedom within the religion itself. :(

I welcome any comments for or against my statements! I'm here to learn...

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:iconphoto-genius: and :iconoptimal-photo: have my permission to show this piece!
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:iconstevemacqwark:
stevemacqwark Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2011  Student General Artist
Why not attack Activision? Call of Duty is the lowest common denominator in everything that is gaming.
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:icondeath-by-candy:
Death-by-Candy Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2008
Very nice shot. Good cause, too.
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:iconkiservonelpaso:
Kiservonelpaso Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008
Nice angle long story there buddy
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008
Ah yes, well there is much to be told and no room to tell it.
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:iconka0s1337:
Ka0s1337 Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008   Digital Artist
its just the beginning
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:iconoloriene:
oloriene Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008   Digital Artist
i don't get it. I've been a scientologist for 8 years now and I have not been "bullied" or harassed or anything. The way you talk it sounds like its the freaking CIA or something.
What most people dont look at is how many times Scientology stood up for people. They run human rights campaigns, they run anti-drug protests, they where there at Ground Zero on 9/11, side by side with the fire-fighters pulling people out of the rubble.
Fine, maybe the religion does not make sense to you, but everyone is buying into this fairy tale stuff that is flying around the internet and NO ONE bothers to actually look at what good we do. If you are going to be objective and champion the "truth", do your homework.
And by the way, why is it that when 63,000 children on psychiatric drugs commit suicide, no one cares.
But you read one internet article and its Doomsday. What the hell?
I am a Scientologist and damn proud of it.
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2008
I'm still hoping that you will respond to the facts I presented you with, and didn't just settle with reading the "one article" I presented in the photo's comments.
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008
I apologize if I have offended you, but after doing the research I have, this is what I found...
I'm not just "reading one internet article" or "buying into fairy tale stuff". I'm well aware that Scientology has done some good things... however, 9/11 was an effort by all people, not just Scientology.
I think the negative aspects that have come out as a result are much stronger. You have this huge war on psychiatry... and yet the religion itself has caused many deaths due to confinement and prevention of its members seeking the medical attention they need. How do you account for such horrifying events that the religion was in charge of? I did notice that the last known account of this was a while ago... so I've taken that in mind. But, prescribed drugs save people as well (I've known people myself). I'm afraid I can't believe your "63,000 children commit suicide" until I see some valid information. If I didn't ask for validation, I'd simply be "reading one internet article..." and being phased by it. What time span is this number set over? How is it proven that the drugs were at cause? Many children commit suicide because of their condition (such as depression), not due to the drugs they might be taking.

I've gone over many recent accounts of past members, both on the internet AND in papers (meaning direct quotes) that verify the information I find about Scientology. I went to the official Scientology website, and found the information egotistical and disturbing. It seems to me that the group would rather battle something like a business, with power and lawyers, than like a religion does with community service and faith.
Do you truly believe you are the ONE true religion that can help people best, and that you aid society more than anyone? I'm sorry, but everything on that site is begging for positive attention and money. It compared a religion to gaining a UNIVERSITY EDUCATION.
If you don't mind me asking, about how much money have you spent on Scientology, and do you think it could replace an education in getting you a good job?

Also, I am skeptical because Scientology has no history, and was created by a science fiction writer who told people how they could make money... and then when 11 members of Scientology were discovered trying to steal legal files from the IRS, he died soon after...
Perhaps you can explain to me why Scientology is so obsessed with copyright. Typically, people copyright when they don't want money taken from them. I can not think of ONE other religion where you must PAY to find salvation and release. Understand that I myself, am not religious, so I am not standing up for a particular belief. But compared to ALL other religions that have backgrounds and connections with the living world.. Scientology screams scam to me.

Please understand that I appreciate you speaking to me, and also that you hold true to your convictions... but I've done plenty of factual research and this is what I believe until I hear better. My mind is open...
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:iconoloriene:
oloriene Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2008   Digital Artist
Well you have a lot of questions there so here we go, I hope I can answer them to the best of my ability.

Firstly, on 9/11, yes it was a massive group effort but merely for consideration you can ask why where they the only relief group asked to remain behind apart from the Red Cross. Other groups came to help but it was such chaos with all these random people running around that law enforcement asked many of them to leave the scene because it was getting too crowded. The Red Cross and the Scientology Volunteer Ministers where asked to stay because of the help they where able to offer. You can see the help they provide here:
[link]
[link]
[link]

On the war with psychiatry, the war was started by them in the first place. When L. Ron Hubbard released Dianetics in 1950, it became so popular that the psychiatric industry became afraid that their sole ownership of mental health was threatened. Consider for a moment that they do not work in terms of a "cure" for mental disorders. They merely prescribe drugs or therapies that suppress symptoms but do not cure them. In fact they do not know why mental illness comes about (fact). Dianetics showed that suppressed memories acted to make a person have fears, anxieties etc. and could resolve them i.e. cure them. Other fields of mental health can not do this by their own admission.
So now enter the law of economics. If there is a demand there must be a supply to satisfy that demand. If there is a constant demand for mental treatment then there is a market for drugs and therapies. At an income of billions per year from grants and sales do you think they are going to take kindly to anyone that can eliminate the need for therapies? Bluntly, no. And so there has been a conflict between the two groups.
I can go on for ages about how psychiatry and psychology have been responsible for hundreds of thousands of cases of murder, rape, torture and fraud but I do not have the time to show you every case file. The only lead I can offer you is see how many psychs have been convicted and jailed for these crimes.
I think the evidence speaks for itself.
You can do more research here: [link]
[link]

On the question of the confined people, well I was not there and I dont know what happened. What I do know is that I have met people with various medical problems from diabetes to skin cancer and each and every time the recommendation from the Church has been to see a doctor.
In fact, at Flag you are literally sent to the doctor to sort out any medical problems before they will accept you for Scientology services. Over and over again since 1950 L. Ron Hubbard has said that Scientology and Dianetics is not a "medical" field and that medicine is for the doctors to handle. If any person comes into a Scientology church for medical treatment they are to be sent straight to a doctor, end of story. That is what I have seen all my life and have been to doctors myself.
You can see this in the book Dianetics and the DVD "Introduction to Scientology" if you care to study them.
In terms of pain relief techniques, they can be explained here in the third to last paragraph: [link]
And lastly, as no one was jailed for any foul play I am rather skeptical about the claims of the deaths. All the articles and videos merely focus on the sensational aspects and do not give account of what happened after or the whole story as a newspaper or investigator might portray it.
What about accidents? People slipping in water, fainting, natural causes? Why has no one considered that? In my own opinion because its not "sensational" enough. Just look at the statistics of how many regular folks die from these kinds of events.

I have come across the question before where people have said "How can you claim to be the most effective solution."
Again, I can only comment from my own observation. Firstly in my final chemistry exam in high school, my teacher literally told me not to get my hopes up as she expected me to fail the subject. I applied the study technology developed by L. Ron Hubbard and i passed with 67% - after 1 nights study.
I was hopeless at communicating, making friends, having a girlfriend and was constantly shy and afraid of being around people. I took a Scientology course in communication and afterwards I made close to 50 close friends, had a stable relationship and was promoted several times at work because of my communication skills.
Now you ask anyone who is on the verge of mental collapse because they are failing school, cant make friends, is a loner and an outcast and they are given that solution. What would that be worth to them? To me it was worth everything. It literally saved my life and I didn't give a damn about the cost. And that alone was not more than US$300 in total. Consider that a psychologist would charge me $500 PER HOUR just to discuss how I FEEL about it, not even handle it. Who is scamming who I ask.
And you ask if it replaces a job and eductation. No, it enhances my job and education. I have spent more time in Scientology cleaning up my education and getting my facts straight than I did my whole life in school. The reason for this is that knowing how to study is at the fore-front of Scientology. [link]

I am going to end off here for the time being but will go over the rest of your message soon. (I also have to eat food you know ;)
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2008
That's a lot of stuff, so I'll try to be organized in my response...
My status on the 9/11 thing doesn't change. It was still an effort by all, and many who wanted to help could not but would have if they were given the chance. Have you considered that they allowed Scientology's help and not others because they needed to cap the amount of people gaining access? Or hopefully they weren't allowing scientologists in there because they knew how many toxic fumes were flying around (the govt certainly didn't protect firefighters in that regard)... yeesh! And it doesn't surprise me that the SVM was a good help with as much money that must be floating around in the church's funds. At least it was used for good rather than embezzlement by certain science fiction writers.

You say that psychiatry started it, so scientology fights back. Mental health is not a child's game that involves bickering back and forth. The thing is, the things that psychiatry and their medicines help are things that CAN'T be "cured". You can't really "cure" depression or stress, but you can control it. Now, I don't personally agree with taking pills for those types of things because I think it's up to the individual to DECIDE to make things better. What I don't understand is why Scientology believes that it has the right to charge people and give "lessons" in curing their depression (or likewise), but a trained psychiatrist does not. Pills work for a lot of people, and for some people they don't... so those people are going to go for what works. Yes, I know that psychiatry supplies a demand in a vicious economic circle. I'm afraid that Scientology seems to do the same thing, only the American economy doesn't benefit from it. How many people have taken a personality test in a Church of Scientology and been told that they are perfectly healthy? I've never heard of a single case. A couple friends of mine went in to see what they would say... both are very optimistic and extremely smart young men, but apparently Scientology argued that they were both severely depressed and need the Church's help. It sounds to me like they just want to recruit more members and cash.
And as far as psychology and psychiatry go... like I said, didn't Scientology provide (and charge you) a class that changed your mental state? That sounds the same as psychology to me. And unless you're a celebrity, your rate for a psychologist won't be $500 an hour. If they can trick an ignorant someone into paying that, they DESERVE the cash... There are going to be quack psychologists just like there are quack dentists... are you going to deny them as well, just because I used to have a dentist that filled fake cavities in my mouth? I say, it's time to find a NEW psychiatrist if the old one won't work. There ARE good ones, too. I find it odd that EVERY source you have provided me with are Scientology websites. Talk about the "winning team writing the history"... I'm afraid I can't believe anything if I only see Scientology's word on it, rather than valid sources outside of the church. Things such as school shootings are not results of pills. They happen because a mental state is inflicted upon someone by society or genetics. You can't stop either of those, you can only help to decrease their effect through talking with yourself or someone else. If psychiatry didn't work most of the time, people wouldn't use it (just like brand names or anything else).

I don't doubt that since you've joined, the Church has changed its ways about suggesting doctors because of the negative attention it has received from deceased members. Are these doctors Scientologists as well, though? I've heard that the Church tries its best to send their members to other members for help, but I can't verify that myself. Just as I have looked at the sources you gave (as well as the official website itself), I will give you a source:
[link]
I'm definitely a person who is open to all possibilities like these deaths being accidental... but when the number is about 100 deaths associated with the Church, I hope you could see why I'm suspicious. I looked up a few of these people myself to make sure they were true. Scientology claims to be the cure, and yet they couldn't help all these people after hundreds or thousands of dollars in those classes and books. And in Lisa McPherson's case... Scientology is quite obviously the phsycial reason for her death, not just mental.

As for your chemistry exam: unless it was AP, I'm sorry but I'm not impressed. :) haha... did you ever think that maybe your teacher's harsh words revved your engine, or that your one night of study was simply very effective? I wouldn't be impressed unless you got a 100. A 67 can be gained with easy knowledge of the subject.. if you showed up to class you could at least get that kind of a grade. I think it's impossible that L Ron Hubbard knew what was going to be on your exam. Maybe he suggested studying skills... well anyone can do that, because everyone studies best a different way.

I understand your loyalties to the Church because of how much it has helped you, but ultimately I think the individual is who changes things for the better. It's not up to Scientology or L Ron Hubbard to tell anyone how to fix things. I've had a number of problems myself, but over time I've helped myself move above and beyond those things without paying anyone. Maybe its not as easy for someone like you, I realize that. I still don't think it's right to base a lifestyle on some books that one science fiction writer wrote. Everyone but Scientology knows he wrote those because fools would pay him for it (and then I didn't even get into the run in with the IRS). How can you say that Scientology is the best answer above the MILLIONS of helpful people and organizations in the world? How many other solutions have you tried before Scientology, or did you just wait in the shadows until you heard about the Church? Doesn't it seem odd that this ONE man suddenly became all-knowledgeable about these ridiculous Thetans and Xenu? The "religious" background of Scientology is science-fiction nonsense. Having to pay money to reach a higher level of knowledge about Xenu or WHATEVER else is ridiculous. Religion should be free. Scientology is a business. This is why so few people can take Scientology seriously. It seems like a joke.
I'm really glad it has helped you, but it will never be the ONE answer. It's just the one you found. I can only hope that you won't be roped in as badly as the MANY former Scientologists I have met and read about that, for some reason, thought it was necessary to leave and tell the world that it is full of cons.
And please. Do the world a favor and tell those higher-ups to get RID of Tom Cruise as a spokesman.. seriously. He's crazy and cannot form a complete sentence. :/
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:iconoloriene:
oloriene Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2008   Digital Artist
Well looking at your response and answers I can see this conversation going back and forth for a very long time. My sole purpose for my comments was to give people an alternative view from someone who has "been there done that" as far as Scientology is concerned.
In all fairness, I got what I paid for and more. I am more than happy with the results and the bottom line is that it worked. And yes, I had looked around for a very long time for answers, not "hiding in the shadows" as you so eloquently put it. I have looked at Christianity, Psychology, Buddhism, Harri Krishna and a few others and while they had good ideas for what to believe in or a solution for a "way of life", none could give me a straight answer to my problems. Its not a knock on them, its simply an observation I made after looking.
My viewpoint is and always has been "give me straight answers" and I got those in Scientology. The catch (and this is where most people loose out) is that I bothered to read the books and apply the knowledge. No one is going to suddenly agree that this stuff is workable unless they have tried it or at least read it.
There is one point that I would like to clarify though in terms of this "science fiction writer" angle people love to take.
What you don't know is that LRH was in the first nuclear physics class at university back in his time, was a member of the actual Explorers Club, pioneered the first radar systems that todays navigation is based on and was a scientist.
Why did he write novels? Well, in the 30's 40's and 50's the world was obsessed with science fiction. LRH wanted to research Man and see what he was and quite frankly wanted to know why Man was in the crapper so to speak. So he wrote novels that did really well in his time and are still selling today. The money was used to fund his research into Dianetics. So to say that he was a writer turned philosopher is the wrong way round. He first was a philosopher and on his own created the means to fund the research to come up with information he gathered.
And the thing that startles me the most is that not any person I have met who had some issue with Scientology has taken the time to read even the simplest of the books. Its like saying a country is crap without ever having been there. If you are worried about spending your money then go to a library and read the books for free, I don't really care.

But fundamentally you have made up your mind and I don't think that if I even made the heavens part and made pigs fly it would make any difference.
All I can say is that I am one voice who is standing up for my group because I know it works for me. That is my integrity to myself and not some notion of loyalty or faith. I have have no "faith" or "belief" in anything, only an expectation of results. And I got the results I wanted, and that is worth more to me than all the gold you can find.
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2008
I think your reasons are legit, though I still can't agree with everything that Scientology deals in. Considering that you are happy with it, I won't go into this any farther, either. Maybe once I get a break from school, I'll pick up the Dianetics book to see what's so wonderful about it. It seems to me that, like you said, your reasons are more based on integrity than nonsensical faith and comes from L Ron Hubbard's saying "Scientology would be a study of knowledge".. I can appreciate that. It's the part of Scientology that tries to make itself a "cult belief", so to speak, that bugs me the most. I can also tell you that if they admitted to being a business, a lot less people would be irritated. :/
All I ask is that you look at the situation from an outsiders view, as well, because now I'm getting an insider's view from you. If anything, you could see what misconceptions there are and try to improve the situation.
Xenu.net

Also, I don't think it's appropriate for you to say "you have made up your mind and I don't think that if I even made the heavens part and made pigs fly it would make any difference". I am not a close-minded person, and if I were, I would never have asked for your point of view or debated the point in the first place. As a matter of fact, that quote could apply to you as well. Thanks for your time and please consider reading up on how Scientology is viewed from the outside in.
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:iconjunkupshowup:
JunkUpShowUp Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008  Student General Artist
we are not a terror group.
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:iconarcadiusd:
Arcadiusd Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2009
your group:

hands out death threats
hands out rape threats
threatens people's kids if they speak out
hack computers
ruin relationships
hack myspace pages and other such sites, including my Youtube page
introduce viruses to computers
and you threatened to blow up sports stadiums.

yes, the lot of you are a terrorist group that needs to be wiped out all at once.
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008
Please think of a better term I could use to replace that word, then, that can describe the purpose of Anonymous to those who are unaware. To my knowledge, the majority of the events that Anonymous has been associated with in the past are related to the unwanted manipulation of internet web sites or the theft and release of private information. To me, that is a very minor form of terror. However, I did not place judgment on the group at all or proclaim them as fear-mongers. I support the cause, but think that there are currently too many weak points for it to gain any real attention. It's unfortunate, but true.

Also unfortunately for the better members of the group, they have allowed these less-educated individuals to speak for them, and the media eats their furry porn-loving attitude up. I take two different participant's quotes from the local paper... "we'd rather just sit at home in our pajamas and watch porn" and "leave our internet alone."
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:iconjunkupshowup:
JunkUpShowUp Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008  Student General Artist
Anon is a revolution, Anon is legion, and as with every revolution there are idiots who try to speak for the masses in a counteractive manner.
I was a part of the Austin raid/protest and we were perfectly civil and peaceful. The only person who actually harassed the Scientologists by going in their building and shouting got shunned by the rest of Anon. Anon is for peace, Anon is for truth.
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008
Yes, I was there taking photos of the dumbass that tried entering the building when the cops left, and I also read in forums afterwards about the majority's reaction towards him and the "fag and AIDS" guy.
I'm glad the protest was peaceful... it speaks a lot for the group. There were a few people in particular that I saw really had good information to hand out, rather than simply making a joke of themselves by making a general statement not backed by facts. (for example, "Scientology sucks" isn't very helpful)
What doesn't really speak well is yelling things like "Scientology stole my placenta" or singing the Fresh Prince of Bel Air (which I heard happened at the end... so I don't know that it really happened, but I heard it second-hand from someone who was).

I understand why you call Anonymous a revolutionary group, saying you are a member, but I think it's too early in the game to call it a revolution. Maybe once the group gains more ground without hiding amongst the internet, I'll be able to see them more as a revolutionary group. I think labeling one real protest and a few accounts of bringing down a web page as a "revolution" is jumping the gun.

Thanks for your input...
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:iconjunkupshowup:
JunkUpShowUp Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008  Student General Artist
How about an internet revolution? Yes, offline it is work in progress.
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:iconmosstroll:
Mosstroll Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008  Student General Artist
I whised that there would've been a protest somewhere near I live :(
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:iconkyokiru:
Kyokiru Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008
This is an exceptional shot and a well thought description. I just want to add that myself, my brother and both of my parents have enjoyed and endorse this campaign by Anonymous, and we are in no way affiliated with 4chan. We're what you might call an ordinary, run-of-the-mill family set, and if we are inspired by this protest then I have no doubt at all that it is a gross underestimation to assume that most of the people involved are "creepy weirdos". They've taken the initiative necessary to set people in action, but they've drawn and continue to draw participants from far outside of their core group for the simple reason that they are right.

Thanks so much for capturing this so beautifully.
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2008
Oh it's my pleasure... I'm glad to hear that your whole family is involved! If there's one thing I liked seeing at this rally, it's all the cars that endlessly honked and participated. That included young and old adults alike, so hopefully it's opened the eyes of some that Scientology is more than a joke!
Thank you for the +fav, as well. :hug:
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:iconashweez:
ashweez Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2008  Professional Interface Designer
ok I'll probably read that description later (its so long >.< haha) but I definitely passed by the drag today and saw that. i wanted to take pics of all the V's standing across the street but I had no camera.

had I known about this sooner, I probably would've joined in haha
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2008
I just found out about the event on Thursday, because luckily a classmate mentioned it to me. I haven't been keeping up with Anonymous' plights because they're not the most influential group, but I might pay a little more attention now that they've actually gone public.

And yes, there were a TON of Guy Fawkes masks, I couldn't believe it! I got a lot of good shots from the protest, masks and all, but only one or two will be posted on DA. :)
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:iconashweez:
ashweez Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2008  Professional Interface Designer
yeah my friend mentioned it in passing like last week and then we passed by today and I remembered it. I would definitely have to wear a mask if I ever decided to join a protest like that. gotta protect yourself haha

I wish I got a pic. it's like a real deal V protest haha I'm so obsessed with that movie.
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:iconchouzan-photography:
chouzan-photography Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2008
I'm obsessed with the comic and movie as well. :)

I guess I didn't feel the need to protect myself because I wasn't really a participant... even though I despise the religion!
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